Harvard Business Review had a podcast before they had a website. Would you ever have guessed? This legacy brand, which has been around since the 1920s, is now leading the way for how organizations big and small should evolve to meet the demands of the digital age and, more importantly, the modern consumer. From early tests on Facebook Live to their new show, Women at Work, everything HBR is doing simply doesn’t match what we’ve come to expect from older, prestigious brands.

How in the heck is this happening? To figure that out, I ventured outside the org chart and met Sarah Green Carmichael, the executive editor of Harvard Business Review. She’s been at the publication through their first website and, more recently, their massive website overhaul. (We get into that story in this episode.) She’s also responsible for taking over their Ideacast podcast at the age of 25.

“I was like, ‘What? I can’t be the voice of Harvard Business Review!'”

Sarah has seen tons of ups and downs throughout her time at HBR, but one thing is certain: She’s figured out how to evolve a legacy organization. So whether you’re working for a similarly aged company, work with executives who are too stubborn to evolve, or you’re part of a startup trying to stay ahead, you’ll appreciate what Sarah is willing to share about leadership and evolving others’ thinking in this episode. It was a refreshingly honest conversation going behind-the-scenes of an organization many admire but few have peered inside. So let’s do that, shall we?